Daily Kos

John Kerry, live in St. Louis

Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 10:14:53 PM PDT

I just got home from Kerry's single appearance here at the St. Louis Community College, and thought I'd share my thoughts about it.

First of all, there were a LOT of people there; much more than I expected, and though I have no experience at estimating crowds; I'd say at least 1000 people packed into a room and overflow intended for about 250.  Kerry's staff was being ably assisted by the Firefighter's Union, and though I arrived only 30 minutes early, I managed to secure a fairly okay position near the back where I could see the stage when the people in front of me decided to sit.

The crowd was also very diverse, something I didn't expect.  There were a significant number of older Americans there, and quite a few African-Americans, though not as many as would be expected in St. Louis, where the city is almost half African-American.  I overheard a pair of younger college students talking about Lieberman, which made me laugh: "I just wish Lieberman weren't so BORING, I really like the way he thinks."  The crowd is buzzing about the possibility that Dick Gephardt is going to surprise and show up to endorse Kerry, but this turns out to be only rumor.  The event was scheduled to start at 4:30, but didn't get rolling until close to 5:30, which, I suppose, is to be expected.

The Kerry people played some good "campaign" style songs as we waited, including Bruce Springsteen's "No Surrender," and he was eventually introduced to U2's "Beautiful Day."  Flanked by local and state (and out-of-state dignitaries), several individuals spoke before he took center stage.

Francis Slay, the mayor of St. Louis, began the rally, and introduced Iowa governor Tom Vilsack, his wife Christie, and former Missouri senators Tom Eagleton and Jean Carnahan.  All spoke very briefly, which was appreciated, and then Kerry took the mike.  He thanked each with a personal anecdote about their support and their (shared) histories; and then started in on President Bush.

The thing that struck me most as I listened to Kerry speak is that Howard Dean's words were coming out of his mouth.  "We need to send George Bush back to Texas, and that's exactly what we're going to do," is the example that comes to mind out of many that I swear Dean used in his stump speech last summer.  The upshot of all this is that I can't say I disagreed with any of the policy positions Kerry put forward; of course, as we all know, this election really isn't about policy, and policy isn't going to decide it, but it's good to know that if Kerry is the eventual nominee, at least I'm comfortable with his politics.

The surprising point is that Kerry spent zero time talking about Vietnam.  He made reference to it once obliquely when he stated that Karl Rove is going to run this election about the war in Iraq, since he can't run it on education, healthcare, jobs, the economy, the environment, etc.  Kerry said he actually had experience on aircraft carriers ... for real.  No, Kerry spends most of his speech hitting the major themes - the failures of the Bush administration, and the values that he holds dearest, including education, healthcare and the environment.  He spent a very small portion of his time speaking about the war, but does promise to go to the United Nations after his inauguration and helping us to rejoin the 'community of nations' and he does say we need to get back to the negotiating table and produce a workable Kyoto global warming treaty.

He also took the time to point out two executive orders he would issue early in his presidency, one prohibiting former Congressmen from taking jobs with lobbyists for 5 years after they left Congress (this means YOU, Billy Tauzin!); and one prohibiting secret meetings between lobbyists and government officials, making disclosures of them mandatory and (I imagine, though he didn't say this explicitly) subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

Healthcare is not a privilege for the wealthy, it's a right.  Kerry tells a good story here about his own brush with cancer, and how we (the taxpayers) paid for his treatment, since Senators have great insurance paid for out of the federal budget; and he wants to offer that same quality care to all Americans.  No specifics here, but this is eerily similar to Dean's plan.

Kerry stumbled over a few lines, and the honest truth is, he isn't the world's greatest orator, though once he gets going, he knows how to work a crowd up to a fever pitch.  He doesn't come across as a 'regular American' for whatever that's worth; but he's certainly electable, and he believes in the same sort of values that progressive Americans do.

I'm off to see if I can weasel my way into Blueberry Hill for John Edwards' 9:15 appearance, but if the Kerry rally is any indication, there's going to be people lining up outside for blocks.  Wish me luck.

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  •  You are making a grave mistake -- (none / 1)

    you are assuming that Kerry believes the words he's saying.  If you get a chance, ask him where the hell he's been for the last 3 years.  He's a disaster waiting to happen -- "electability" is the creation of pundits who spend all their time talking to each other, and sheep-like voters who watch TV and don't think for themselves.  Democrats are making the biggest mistake in decades if they fail to recognize the true leadership and appeal of Howard Dean.
    •  Oh, bother (none / 0)

      It's a losing battle to be protesting these sentiments on Kos, but FYI I've thought quite a lot about the candidates and am supporting Kerry.  The same goes for my parents, whose opinions on politics I respect a good deal, and who have been loyal Democrats all their lives.  Please at least consider watching one of his recent New Hampshire events (check CSPAN's site) before dismissing him as unelectable.  I find it's easy to dismiss other candidates based on conventional wisdom and hearsay without really listening to them and deciding for yourself.  
      •  I've lived in Massachusetts since (none / 1)

        before Kerry was first elected to the Senate.  I consider myself well qualified to make a judgment about him.
      •  I don't have a problem with your support of Kerry (none / 0)

        But seriously, doesn't he sound different than he did before Dean rose to prominence?  And if he succeeds if besting Dean, which version of Kerry will we hear from now on?

        If Dean's message has been heard and will be followed by other candidates, I can live with that.  If Kerry is just mouthing words he doesn't believe until Dean's dead and buried, he deserves nothing but contempt.

      •  I think you missed the point (none / 0)

        The point was that he hits most of the right themes in his speeches, but doesn't back them up with any consistency. So you can't trust that the nice sentiments will translate into action and leadership when public sentiment is not going his way.

        Why don't Kerry supporters give examples of such persevering behavior during Kerry's recent career? That would quiet some of the critics (not all, of course).

        "We're borrowing money from China to buy oil from the Persian Gulf to burn it in ways that destroy the planet." Al Gore

        by jd in nyc on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 11:11:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Right on! (none / 1)

          There have been quite a few articles (not opinion pieces) showing that he doesn't seem to follow up on issues he puts forward strongly.

          And this was before he was running for president.

          I think you have to believe in something before you can get it to move into action.

          Dean was defeated when he first put forth his health care plan, but unlike Clinton, he didn't give up. He kept going back to the legislature, getting this, getting that, getting something else until he had everyone under 18 years covered.

          You can't buy persistence!

  •  Thanks for the report! (none / 0)

    I really enjoyed reading it.  I wish I could make it to more of these events before the primaries are over, but I'll have to content myself with having visited New Hampshire a few times.. :)
  •  Most interesting (none / 0)

    is the nature of the crowd. Perhaps my biggest problem with a Dean candidacy is that he does not seem to have strong links or appeal to African Americans. Not to say that Kerry has them either, but I think more so than Dean.

    This also gets to one of the big flaws of Dean's electoral strategy getting on board sundry disaffected libertarians and greens doesn't amount to much in the end.

    Again, we'll see soon enough where the African American vote goes. For my mind, this is the main reason why NH and Iowa should not come first.

    Ben P

    •  Dean and African-Americans (none / 0)

      Strong links and appeal? How about winning the DC primary against Al Sharpton? The endorsements of Jesse Jackson Jr, Carol Mosely-Braun, and much of the Congressional Black Caucus?

      Dean does as well or better with this group as any other candidate.

      W was elected to protect Them from Us.

      by Radical Middle on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 01:51:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kerry and aircraft carriers (none / 0)

    Kerry served on swift boats, not an aircraft carrier.

    If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

    by Carl Nyberg on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 10:49:19 PM PDT

    •  Kerry's service (none / 0)

      "Kerry served on swift boats, not an aircraft carrier."

      Incorrect.  Kerry did 2 tours of duty in the Navy.  The first was on an aircraft carrier.  It's not talked about much because frankly not much happened.  Then he re-enlisted and was assigned to swift boats.

      And thanks to the poster of this diary.  It's a good account, and it's always nice to read something about Kerry that isn't dripping venom.

      •  thanks for info (none / 0)

        I checked Kerry's website for details on his Navy career.  It didn't mention the CV time.

        However, Kerry being a full lieutenant is consistent with doing a tour before Vietnam.

        If you are interested in the politics of Proviso Township in Cook County, Illinois, visit Proviso Probe.

        by Carl Nyberg on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 01:33:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It's not Policy (none / 1)

    Edge,

    ONE   Out of curiosity, can you expand your thoughts on why this election won't be decided on Policy?

    TWO   His solution on Lobbyists is a cruel joke!!  The problem remains because so many politician's spouses "become" lobbyists or their children "become" lobbyists.  Like trent lotts kid, who prior to his new vocation, managed a pizza parlor in Miss.  And K's own campaign manager Mary Beth is married to a Lobbyist and K's brother works for a law firm that does lobbying.  Now what, they'll not going to have access to K.

    (its funny the media won't harp on that, not now anyways, yet they were harping on Dean's hiring of Roy O'Neil because he headed a business lobby)

    THREE  "Not talking about Viet Nam."  A distingushed poster to this site, Chicken Little, mentioned last week that K can't talk about Iraq because it will remind people that he voted for it.  And prior to that observation, I was surprised that K didn't jump on Paul O'Neills book.  He avoided it in interviews to the point of feigning Naiveté about the gravity of O'Neills expose.  But it fits.  Now who knows if it will work.

    McCain: He's Constipated and Ready to GO

    by Al Rodgers on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 11:12:58 PM PDT

    •  Response (none / 0)

      Al,

      I don't think this election will be decided on policy, but I have a narrow definition of policy.  I don't mean general positions like "healthcare is good" or "education needs more money" or "we need more jobs."  I mean detailed positions about how to reform the tax code, or how to actually provide healthcare for all Americans.

      I may be underestimating the electorate, but the fact is that the media is never going to give wide coverage to specific issues of policy because it doesn't sell papers or get people to watch the news.  Besides, the gulf between what the Democratic party now believes and what Bush has done is so wide that the difference should (and I emphasize should) be apparent to everyone.

      As far as Vietnam goes, I merely mentioned this because it surprised me.  If the Republicans hit hard on foreign policy experience, it's one of Kerry's strengths that he is a decorated combat veteran.  Especially in the primary, this is one thing, for better or worse, that sets him apart from the other candidates, with the exception of Wes Clark, of course.

      While Chicken Little may be right about Iraq and Kerry, the CW I've seen indicates that democrats are more comfortable with Kerry because many of them were also misled by the administration, and fell for their lies.  Therefore, they're more comfortable with Kerry, rather than Dean, who lords over the other candidates that he was clever enough to see through the President's lies.

      All that being said, I'm not a Kerry supporter - I just wanted to see him live when I had the chance.  I've supported Dean for months, and I will still probably vote for him on Tuesday.

      •  I thought (none / 0)

        you meant personality, not policy.

        You know "I'm a uniter, not a divider"  "'I bring honor and blah blah blah" "Gore is a bore"

        The only extended-general policy talk in the debates,was when shrub made a big deal against nation building in Debate II.

        The rest was about who was more likeable and who would you feel more comfortable with for the next 4 to 8 years.

        I couldn't watch his victory speech last night, but from what I read, he didn't bring up Iraq either.  Well who knows, but I was in tears and in rage earlier in the day when I read the reuters bulletin about 6 G.I.s gettin blown up.

        I like that reference to "Lords", it makes me think about why the voters didn't think the same thing when K and joe got heavy handed after The Kurds captured Saddam, not withstanding a third of the party, and atleast half of indep.  supported the war prior to the invasion.

        McCain: He's Constipated and Ready to GO

        by Al Rodgers on Thu Jan 29, 2004 at 12:54:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Yes Thanks (none / 1)

    I really appreciate the time you took to write this up for us--very interesting.

    Myself, I imagine Kerry is sincere when he takes up Dean's lines--it's a stance that seems quite close to the "crusading" that Kerry has always been comfortable with (another longtime (onetime) mass. resident here).

    What worries me about Kerry is that he'll lack the attention span and discipline to govern effectively and manage an administration. Clark or Edwards or even Dean would be more like Clinton III, whereas Kerry would be bringing in lots of paleolibs who might really screw things up.

    But look on the bright side, Kosfans, Kerry is far more liberal than you realize (more liberal than yours truly, and also, not coincidentally, more liberal than Dean). It would be interesting to see that old style liberalism improbably back in the White House--but I fear that the Repubs in congress would play Kerry like a violin.
     

    •  Clinton II (none / 1)

      Hey, I missed it, who was clinton II?

      2nd issue
      I dunno about K being a liberal, he distanced himself from the dems after 94

      http://al-rodgers.dailykos.com/hotlist/add/2004/1/26/164635/034/section//Diary

      He voted for Daschel instead of Chris Dodd in 95,

      He made a big deal about affirmative action, at yale of all places in 92, yet failed to discuss the ole boy-legacy network.

      He opposed health care reform from the start in 93, not even offering a substitute measure.

      He's been mute on tax policy for 19 yrs.

      He's been mute on higher ed policy for 19 yrs.

      He's been morally against the d. penalty for his career, but he recently carved out an "exception" for terrorists.

      He's made noise about school choice to the point that he criticized the low SAT scores of Education majors (talk about class warfare)

      He was against Gulf I but for Gulf II

      and just this weekend at a town hall meeting, he said he didn't have any problem with mandatory drug testing of public school kids, a violation of Probable cause clause of the 4th amendment.

      and its an error to characterize Dean and Clark supporters as Paleoliberals, we know better than that, we read.  And we love at least one of them, if not both.

      McCain: He's Constipated and Ready to GO

      by Al Rodgers on Wed Jan 28, 2004 at 11:59:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Clinton II = (none / 1)

        Clinton II = shorthand for the second Clinton term.

        I dunno about K being a liberal, he distanced himself from the dems after 94

        Certainly he's been a hypocrite from time to time when he needed to be politically ... but in his overall approach and attitude, he's very much a knee-jerk liberal. Nothing wrong with that.

        He voted for Daschel instead of Chris Dodd in 95

        Is it your impression that that leadership fight was understood as moderate vs liberal? I'm not so sure. Dodd may be from the NE but he's a neoliberal like the rest.

        On your other points on Kerry--hey, as I say above, I agree he's a hypocrite who's willing to bash the left when it's politicallly convenient. But he always comes home--his instincts are 100% traditional liberalism.

        Just an anecdote; when I do that "find the candidate who agrees with you on the issues" online test the scores I get are Kucinich 90%, Kerry 85%, and then the rest all around 70%. That's because, of course, Dennis & JFK are willing to actually admit that they're anti-Death Penalty, (in Dennis's case) pro-legalization, etc ... anyway, it's indicative of Kerry's flaming liberalism. Which I think it would be fascinating to see elected, don't get me wrong.

        and its an error to characterize Dean and Clark supporters as Paleoliberals, we know better than that, we read.  And we love at least one of them, if not both.

        I don't imagine any Dean or Clark supporters (at least not here) think that their candidate is a Paleolib--but I also imagine that many or even most of those supporters are themselves Paleolibs. Hence their outrage at positions like those you list Kerry insincerely taking.

        Myself, I prefer candidates who take some such moderate/conservative postitions sincerely. (Hmm, maybe there's a problem with how that online issues test is structured!) And I love Clark and like Dean and Edwards.

        Kerry I respect but not for his policy smarts--and I imagine an administration of his would run into some serious problems in the first few years working the Ira Magaziners out of its system.

           

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